l-sen coins..how about blue-black marks?

there was a time when i was very conscious of knocking a stone on gravel path or almost missing a step at place of work or knocking into edge of a table whenever my mind was not thinking nice or noble thoughts of some situation or person..enough such occasions occurred for me to make the association that i needed to practise phil 4:8 more diligently..after being able to thank Him for the blue-black marks ( having flesh that bruises easily serves its purpose too) for a phase of time, am reminded now that, hei, i miss those knocks !does God speak to us? you bet He does! how? in myriad yet simple ways.

Yes, it is true that the emergence of tomorrow's leaders depends on the idealism of today's young.

But idealism has two sides of the coin. On the good side, we are focused on a vision of good for society. On the flip side, our idealism can blind us from making a realistic assessment of the weaknesses of human nature.

Just one example of the dangerous idealism that has caught Malaysian bloggers and citizens is this: Putting too much faith in political action to solve the nation's current problems!

In my recent post on Solzhenitsyn, I found his insights into the problem of politics to be very relevant to Malaysia - a nation buffetted by political idealism, secularism and religious fudamentalism.

"Solzhenitsyn: The Battle of Good & Evil Over Nations" at www.jeremiahliang.blogspot.com

I agree that very few people work for the good of all, but that is why good politicians who do not appeal to our lowest instincs are a rare and much desired breed in this country today.

Read a similarly themed article about the power of the few versus the good of all (Ends & Means Out of Malaysia's Stalemate) at www.jeremiahliang.blogspot.com

Dialogue is one of the essentials of life. It is one of the most important means for knowing each other, cooperation, exchange of interests and realizing the truth, which contributes to the happiness of humankind.
I hope my comments below are helpful?
1. The role of active citizenship in bringing together people of different faiths is an exemplary role; it is good to expand and extend such events to other universities in the region.
2. Your effort(s) will promote cooperation among religious communities to fight against discrimination, engage in honest conversation and confront each other peacefully, and to treat others regardless of faith, as they would like to be treated.

3 Mutual respects take time to realise so inter-religious dialogue must continue to be promoted not only at a high and political level but I believe in the need and the importance of involving children, as they will live in a more and more multi-cultural and multi-faith society.

4. I believe your aim is not only to talk and understand each other but also to inspire us to cooperation, co-existence, tolerance and peace. So, keep up the good work.

Daily one meets the stereotype public servant like rubini's bn counting agent who wants to go home aeap etc..beyond the basic mores like initialing etc as expected of an educated, civilised, transparent, accountable citizenry, one must be prepared/willing to put one's head on the block ready to be chopped-read (for example): speaking up on issues concerning use of allocated funds, reminding superiors and subordinates that these funds come not from the coffers of govt but actually the toil and sweat of the tax-paying rakyat, gently insisting (when one works within the system, and chooses to be civil, shouting matches as portrayed in the hallowed halls of parliament are not affordable)on need for genuine rites of process and procedure when questionable tenders and bills of procurement and payment surface, refusing to sign at instances like these if one is a signatory..etc
To turn the flicker of hope we felt that phenomenal, historic, euphoric, surreal even, fateful evening the results poured forth, into a flame, the crunch now is to continue diligently in the daily toil, of tenaciously making a stand for all that is honest and fair and just, feeble though the courage one feels and to be wary of falling back into apathy, long the bane of us malaysians...may God continue to look upon this nation with mercy and grace as we go through this fiery period of facing the truth, renewal and revelation though the burning and purging and repentance need to occur first.

I hope this dialogue does not lose its focus as my earlier remarks were in response Mr Ong's article, which raised many complex issues about politics and faith.

I am no theologian but I do not share his view that abortion does not figure prominently in the Bible when the 6th commandment says thy shall not murder.

Anyway, it is important to distinguish between a vote for a politician/party and moral support for a fellow Christian (who happens to be a politician).

On political issues that should concern Christians, there is a fine line here. For example, I support BN for its policy in raising fuel prices and I think Anwar is mistaken in his plan to cut petrol prices.

Is this a crucial issue that should be decided on religious grounds? No, it is an economic issue and Christians should recognise it as such. Is the invasion of Iraq a religious issue or it is a geopolitical issue motivated by the need to have control over oil? Bush probably failed because of poor execution, bad PR or lack of divine guidance in geopolitics. I don't have enough info to judge his track record and hardly dare to judge his or any Christian's character for that matter.

Should Christians be more active in social issues? Yes, to show the love of Christ. But please remember we can't expect to build God's Kingdom on our earth on our own efforts before He comes back. Unless one believes in "Kingdom Now" theology, which I hope none of us share.

In addition to Idealism, I think a good dose of healthy imagination will be even better. An important ingredient for imagination is that we don't lose some childlike creativity and curiosity often prematurely squashed as we move beyond childishness to more mature postures in relating to people and issues.

Critical thinking is often lacking in our Malaysian context. Cynicism maybe also taking a front seat after so many disappointments and failed promises we experienced.

Granted we can't ignore to the need to be critical and cautious, but let's not forget the powerful energy that can be unleashed when chastised idealism still has it's say, and creative imaginations are on the move.

Mr Liang, I am continuing this debate only because you have written that Christians should engage in discussions. Not trying to find fault at all.

Honestly, "the decline of law and order" is so broad that it will fit most criteria, including, yes, "issues that affect our society spiritually". The problem is you emphasized that the criteria for acting decisively is when these issues affect our society spiritually. Wouldn't it be more consistent with what Jesus taught to say that Christians should get involved because we are concerned about the welfare, needs and rights of our neighbour. The focus is on the neighbour and his concerns. Perhaps the Samaritan can in some way say that he was helping the Jew who was robbed and wounded, spiritually. But that's not really the point, is it?

As for voting on March 8, a Christian can only vote on the choices available. If you have to choose between a candidate that stands for a corrupt regime BUT secular in philosophy, and a candidate that stands for honesty BUT also establishing an Islamic state, you just have to make the best choice you can. What Christians need to ask is what they can do to ensure that they have better choices at the next elections. But if you do nothing, then the next time you will still have choices that you are uncomfortable with.

In Malaysia, Christians tend to be known for only two hot button issues, i.e. (1) Freedom of Religion (e.g. The Lina Joy Case) and (2) Places of Worship including burial grounds.

While these two issues must not be neglected, and it has indirectly forced Non-Muslim groups to work together as seen in visible work of the Malaysian Consultative Council of Buddhism, Christianity, Hindusim, Sikhism and Taoism (MCCBCHST), and are rights we believe enshrined fundamentally in the Malaysian Constitution, it would be a grave mistake on our part to be reduced only to these 2 issues.

The way forward Malaysians and the Christian contribution specifically is for us to move beyond what concerns our immediate communities to wider issues of poverty, human rights, civil and political reform, etc.

A caution for Christians in Malaysia is that we need to guard against importing the issues and tone which dominate American Christianity and politics into our own context (of course, this doesn't mean we isolate ourselves). This means we need to make more conscious efforts to keep our focus on local issues.

I said that Christians should act decisively when there are issues that affect our society spiritually. For example, the decline of law and order affects all citizens. How can a Christian be stirred to act for his own kind when crime affects everybody.

A Christian who voted for Pakatan Rakyat is actually in a dilemma because if you look at it, the vote is also for PAS which advocates an Islamic state, a concept that will affect not only Christians, but all other Muslims who are against hudud laws imposed on them.

So why do Christians take a stand against BN in the last GE? It is only after weighing the pros and cons of PR. It is a protest vote to check the power of BN.

If I read Mr Liang rightly, he says that of all matters, big issues that infringe on spiritual matters should move us to act. Such as destruction of churches, religious extremism - these are issues that concern Malaysian christians.

The problem with such a point of view is that he is saying we should really act when issues that affect us (as Christians) arise. For other issues, our attitude will be "biasa-lah". That would be no different from Malays who care only when the Malay agenda is affected, or Indians who agitate only when Indian interests are harmed. Or Chinese who are roused only when their own rice bowl is threatened. Would we really say that this is what the Bible teaches us to do?

I agree that Christians, under normal circumstances, should be politically neutral and not be bound to a self-proclaimed Christian leader.

However, you well know that Malaysia is facing some very worrying trends that have resulted in the upheaval of in public's confidence in the 8 March election results.

yes, Christians should be wise enough to examine a host of issues when giving their political support to any party or individual.

However, the big issues that infringe on spiritual matters are the ones that we should act on wholeheartedly.

These issues include the destruction of churches and places of worship (one single incident is enough), the decline of law and order, the rise of religious extremism and the unbliblical use of race in politics and economics.

If we do not voice our protest and affirm our values today, when will we do so?

Yes, I totally agree with you Mr Ong that we ought to know on whose side we are on. It is an art and a challenge to submit to the governing authorities and engage meaningfully with them with regards to public policies in Malaysia. The civil rulers mentioned in Romans 13 were probably pagans at the time Paul was writing. Christians of that age may have been tempted not to submit to them and to claim allegiance only to Christ but even the possibility of a persecution did not shake Paul's conviction that civil government is ordained by God.
What are the options available? Let me quote your words: 'we should remain engaged as politically and socially responsible citizens of our country, be driven by our convictions, be persuaded by a menu of issues (and not just a few) and ask our Christian leaders to be politically neutral and independent but at the same be engaged with their congregations and with politicians on issues of importance to the country'. We cannot submit to the temporal governing authorities without first submitting to God's authority (translated into Bahasa Malaysia: Kita tidak dapat taat kepada pemerintah tanpa terlebih dahulu taat kepada pemerintahan Allah).

About 10 years ago, my pastor-friend's son was also drowned saving someone. He was 18 then. That family was also related to my wife's side of family.

It was a church picnic at a waterfall site. An adult member met with difficulty at the swirling-pool. Another adult rushed to help him. The latter also got into difficulty.

Then that 18-year-old youth without much thought went to their help. But he tried in vain. He managed to grab a rock. Unfortunately he could not sustain for too long as he was completely exhausted. And he slipped into the pool in the sight of all people around it. 3 of them were drowned!

At the evening memorial service at the church, the church youths were filled with the Holy Spirit that bursted into songs of joy.

That boy was a hero. He had never thought that with his small size, he was not the right person to extend his rescue to 2 big men. In the sight of our Lord, that boy had made it.

Recently, I had to clarify to some Muslim and Christian readers on my article: "Ethics Without Religion is Possible." on my blog www.jeremiahliang.blogspot.com.

I know that as fellow believers in a monotheistic God, it seems quite difficult for us to accept a world where ethics can be practised without faith in God. It is like building a castle on sand.

When I said that humans have a common need for goodness, I am referring to the unspoken moral law of right and wrong which is common to most, if not all, civilisations.

So this hidden code of right and wrong is already wired into our systems and I don't believe it is a matter of taste or fashion.

The great challenge of all religions is this: We are faced with these two conflicting facts that (a) mankind have a tendency to be selfish and to commit all kinds of sins; (b) he very well knows the civil law as well as the unspoken law of right and wrong.

To me as a Christian, the only way a person can be genuinely reformed to be good (not merely obedient to an external law) is to believe in God and live out a righteous life. But I know this transformation is a spiritual and personal matter which can not be enforced/coerced by external laws.

This is why I fully support a system of civil laws that promotes the ethics of the common good of mankind.

In other words, it is unethical to impose our ethics on those who do not agree with us (i.e. going beyond universal values such as honesty, charity and honour).